Profi-Golfer, die auf dem Platz geschummelt haben… Willkommen zurück im Golf District. Auf diesem Kanal stellen wir Ihnen jetzt die schlimmsten Betrüger der Golfgeschichte vor. Es kommt eher selten vor, dass professionelle Golfer offen betrügen. Aber wenn diese professionellen Golfer dies tun, können Sie darauf wetten, dass es umstritten sein wird. Sagen wir einfach, Patrick Reed ist einer dieser umstrittenen professionellen Golfer. Sein Gesicht täuscht irgendwie. Er hat das Gesicht eines Babys, das so unschuldig ist und niemals auf einem Golfplatz schummeln würde. Nun, wie sie sagen, beurteilen Sie das Buch nicht nach seinem Einband. Sehen Sie sich jetzt dieses Video an, in dem wir die schlimmsten Betrüger der Golfgeschichte ins Rampenlicht rücken. #Golf #PatrickReedCheating #WorstGolfCheaters Die betrügerischsten Momente des professionellen Golfsports https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T–2G127vas Die schlimmsten Arten, wie Menschen beim Golf betrügen, und wie man sie erkennt! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlhBw-m8_Zc Patrick Reed betrügt bei Hero World Challenge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCuTyD5VhsM
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Breaking the rules isn’t cheating, you just get penalized. Using the rules in your favor isn’t cheating, that’s just smart. Giving yourself a score that’s lower than you deserve, that’s cheating.
Yeah, it’s cheating. That’s what the penalty is for. So your disadvantaged for doing so. Or they would all do it all the time and the end result wouldn’t resemble the game of golf.
sometimes I feel like I’m cheating playing winter rules. But what choice do I have it’s Alaska.
Jesus what a lame video. Full of just plain wrong or misleading info.…
Patrick Reed is a real POS. Him and Sergio are right there, one and two.
I hope Mickelson sues you for accusing him of cheating.
I like Mickelson, I don’t think he deserves all the bad press over the Saudi league. I don’t see that as an issue, the pga see is as an issue. Money. However, he definitely cheated. He broke the rules and was given a penalty. He then admitted it was intended as in that scenario it was worth the penalty.
A video about the worst cheats in golf, with hardly any cheating shown. Using the rules isn’t cheating, it may be against the spirit of the game, but definitely not cheating.
If you purposely break rules with the intention of gain, it’s cheating. I have nothing against Mickelson.
@Venerated Mortal What did Phil gain there? If you actually think about it had he not hit the moving ball he may have saved 2 shots, and almost definitely 1 shot.
@LRN_News The gain is that he hit a much shorter putt than if he had waited. The penalty is to stop him gaining from that. If everyone was allowed to hit a moving putt you end up with hockey.
phil wasn’t cheating
I cheat so much in golf, these are amateur.
Lots of Phil bashing going on
Lately
Finished negative 2, negative 4.…what “golf person” talks like that?
great comment, seriously. It’s almost like you’re saying because he didn’t use the words you deemed appropriate that he is wrong. Wouldn’t that be a crazy thing to see on the internet, ya know?
@dinosaur 67
Hey, how cool are you?
@Dinosaur 67 what?
@Dan Schulte Agree
sorry.…what Phil did was not even close considered cheating.…..smh
it is not like after he took a 10 he turned to his scorer (other player) and said it was a 6.…lol…(like in Caddy Shack)
If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying!
Is that a lefty swing by Arnold at 7:00?
US and all of what they stand for is so pathetic, now suddenly Phil is a cheat, a traitor and everything that is bad. They the county with the worst crimes against humanity and will do anything when challenged and not in control.
It’s just one of those accounts that steal content from other stuff and put it together to try to get clicks
Well go away
You can’t stop your ball from rolling off the green after striking it with putter..I’ve always felt something was off about Phil for yrs..I just couldn’t put my finger on it,but now it’s finally surfaced he’s not as squeaky clean as everyone thinks he is. He & eldric are jokes.
that was an intentional big FU to the usga for unplayable conditions at the US open. he was telling the world this is BS of a course setup.
Can we find someone who knows something about golf to do the announcing here? When you are under par it’s “minus two” not “negative two.” And it’s a long a in Amen Corner. Pronounce it any way you want when you are praying, but it’s A‑men not Ah-men at Augusta. Geez, next you’ll say someone “hit” a hole in one.
You obviously don’t know shit about golf.
don’t forget phil’s square grooved wedge incident…
they were legal at the time
Boring clickbait
Why would you want to cheat at golf they have cameras everywhere ask Patrick
If the boulder can be physically moved and it doesn’t move the ball after it is….
🤷🏻♂️ Seems fair to me. It’s still a shot straight off the dirt. 😂
its a “loose impediment” lmao
It’s only cheating if you get caught.
Alex Cejka must hold some sort of record for disqualifications. He seems incapable of following the rules and has been caught out many times.
moving a boulder was the biggest farce.…loose impediment…my ass…
Getting a do-over in golf is always cheating. Calling it Mulligans or Rule adjustments is nonsense if the whole field doesn’t get to do the exact same thing on any given hole.
Great content? This content is cheating by sucking so much. I’m blocking this amateur channel from my feed.
Phil’s foul wasn’t cheating, he did it in front of everyone. These clowns don’t know what cheating means.
Liv golf got pga cancelling phil big time..lol
Palmer
Deer antler spray? DEER ANTLER SPRAY?.…bwah ha ha ha😂
This guy is lying.false news
I’d rather watch Phil than a bunch of nanny SJW dweebs who cancel out their fellow golfers and wear slave labor Nike apparel like Rory.
Yes this video is stupid
I was watching the NBA finals and he made a 3 runs from top of key. Wtf. Negative 2. Hahajha
“Routine 7 footer”
14–16 Ft putt lol
…downhill on a fast green lol
@Collin K can you see how far it is or no
@Paul Bills sorry I was agreeing with you. My comment was meant to add to yours to highlight the absurdity of calling that a “routine putt” lol
Tbh, my guess was about 12–14 ft when I watched it, but I suck at reading greens and judging putting distance 🤣
@Collin K 😂😂 i was certain for a second thats why I’m so bad at putting lol. I was think you knew something I didn’t 🧐😤😅
Dude listening to u say some of these players names makes my back hurt from cringing
whatt, you mean youre not a brooks Kwepka fan?
Brooks Kwepka owns Ah-men corner. He shoots negative 3 there.
@jgfunk I shot a positive 8 on the back nine yesterday, I said a couple ah-mens looking for my ball
Really love the way you pronounce Koepka
This guy doesn’t even know how to pronounce koepka
yep, this is SHIT CONTENT !!!
How he says Koepka
I’d pick almost anybody over that pompous arse Venturi.
WARNING: clickbait BS site.
To me, none of the infractions mentioned rises to a level that i consider real cheating. The incidents mentioned are against PGA rules but, i don’t think it would have made a difference in the final score. I have 30 years experience playing golf…i have never seen a player improve his score because he brushed the sand on his back swing, or moving his ball an inch on the putting green. I think the rules need to change, period. Some of them are ridiculous. The worst one for me is when my ball lands in a fairway divot and i have to play it from there. I don’t care if someone does any of the infractions you mentioned.…i’m ok with it.
I believe even Jack suggested that divots should be considered ground under repair, after all the player hits the fairway as he is supposed to but gets penalized for finding an undue condition due to another player’s action? If golfers can get relief from undue conditions off the fairways, players should be afforded the same relief for hitting the fairways!
we made our own rules free drop when
very close to tree root, no going inside
forest to retrieve ball (too many snakes)…
drop closest to entry plus one stroke.
The reason we can’t take relief from a divot is that the fairway is literally covered with divots. Who’s to say how old a divot has to be to be considered a “divot.” Players would be arguing the slightest bad lie in the fairway is an old divot, so, no relief.
So Patrick Reed, in the sand wasn’t cheating? He literally took an inch of sand out of there. He should have just used a sand shovel. 😆
Mickelsons putting “incident” wasnt cheating, cheating in golf is when someone surreptitiously breaks the rules hoping that no one will catch them in the act, in order to benefit themselves. Mickelson used the rules to his advantage, theres a HUGE difference. Dont get me wrong, I dont agree with what he did, but hat he did wasnt “cheating”.
The Reed incident in the waste area is a good example of what cheating is. He knew what he was doing and that it was against the rules and he tried to hide it.
The Tiger “incident” is not cheating either, no rules were broken and ANY player out there would do exactly the same thing if they could.
The Palmer “incident” was also NOT cheating. When one doesn’t agree with a ruling or if one is unsure about what to do and a rules person isnt around, one can play a second ball from the same spot as if the drop was given so as to sort it our later without needlessly delaying play, which is clearly what happened. To call that cheating is to clearly demonstrate ones own ignorance.
@nicholas schroeder
I asked you to cite the specific rule that you think he knowingly broke and all you gave is you opinion of what happened, well, your opinion is noted, but entirely irrelevant to the rules of golf.
If it truly offends you so much that there is no rule to prevent this sort of thing from happening, then I suggest you email the R&A and ask them to review the rules.
Oh and FYI, there was no favouritism shown for Tiger or any other player I’ve seen it happen to, you’re simply wrong that it’s against the rules.
@Aussie Naturalist It can’t be a loose impediment, and it isn’t a movable object–by definition. I doubt any rule covers this. I think they let things like this slide for the pros. It’s not that important though. Tiger cheated in far more serious ways.
@nicholas schroeder
Cool opinion mate, but utterly irrelevant to the rules of golf.
Can you cite the incidents where Tiger knowingly broke the rules of golf to benefit himself?
Remember, for it to be “cheating”, there must be malicious intent on Tigers behalf to break the rules, a simple fuck up or an accident is not cheating.
@Aussie Naturalist he cheated because his ball would go off the green and he didnt let it go
@Elias Neto
I hope you understand and agree that intent is important in distinguishing between someone who is cheating (Reed) in order to surreptitiously improve their lie, score, etc.. and someone who openly and deliberately incurred a penalty (Phill) becasue they’ve had enough and ran out of fcuks to give.
There is a big difference between incurring a penalty due to rule infringement, and cheating.
If you dont understand that then you dont understand golf and the rules very well, certainly not a higher level, anyway.
Not cheating if it is within a rule!!!
All you commenters subjectively contemplating what is or isn’t cheating are definitely cheaters. In Alaska, your handicap is just higher than in Vegas. The line must be drawn objectively for all to follow.
Can’t disturb sand on the backswing; no mulligans allowed. Lose ball, take a penalty stroke. Re-tees are laying 3, so just drop and take your third. Par with an astrick is not par…sorry.
Rules are rules.
F reed
Hater Vision TV???
Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf_wshneAJk
Looks like “The Golden Moment” is at the 9 second mark! LOL Am I wrong? Player was known for cheating – Nicklaus, Palmer, Watson all berated him about his antics. He would have a lie in the rough – would put a fairway wood in behind the ball, push the grass down, then hit an iron. That’s just one I read about… They kept telling him to cut it out. hahahaha
Cheetah Woods,multiple times, on and off the course.
you woke PoS – When a golfer is +14 and he;s still praise and shown on TV !
Click bait. Most of these not cheating
Who the fuck is brooks kooebka?
4:18 ITS A MOVABLE OBJECT
Funny the hate on Phil Mickelson now. Organized?
Although it’s a giant boulder, if enough people can move it, it is a loose impediment. Completely legal to move out of the line of shot
Exactly, don’t get me wrong yes I like Tiger. He’s definitely not my favorite player, that man is definitely in contention for the best golfer to be known but idk not my favorite at all. Rory, JT, and Jordan Speith are my top 3
You are not making your viewers happy , just sayin …
In what world is taking relief from an imbedded ball cheating?
What click bait from a person/group that obviously doesn’t know golf. A routine 7 footer? No a 15 footer on one of the slickest greens in US Open history. He was more pissed at the conditions – not cheating.
Look at these minions for PGA, who cares when you get 200million your a hero Phil.
A routine 7 footer? What on earth is he talking about?
Phil Mickelson has no ethics
Negative press on Phil?
Great champion and doesn’t deserve negative press. Is great to the game of golf.
“And while it’s not technically cheating”.….“It was definitely cheating”
This video is trash! Multiple examples are not cheating. Bad pronunciation throughout video. Also you don’t say Negative, it’s over par. What a rough watch.
i thought Tiger cheated 9 times?
Ha… Not many will get this!
You missed out Gary Player sand scrape in 1974 British Open.
Putting a bad reputation on some of these people when you ca. clearly see they weren’t cheating…
What performance enhancing drug is there for golf?? Spinach?
Whatever it is, I need a lot of it!
Basically, imo.. this shows that in a game of honesty and integrity; the human flaw, can show at any time.
To use a phrase;
“It’s what we do.” sometimes. From Adam & Eve, till the end of time.
Patrick Cheat was the only real case of cheating here imo. Having a history of questionable situations does not help his career
Nah the tiger one was definitely cheating
@Ethan Weimer-Kopf i don’t agree. It is bending the rules in his advantage for sure, but he did not try to hide it or take advantage in a sneaky way.
@Machine cheating is cheating. It doesn’t have to be done sneakily to be cheating. If you do something against the rules, it is cheating. No matter what.
@Ethan Weimer-Kopf so is removing a twig which is in the swing path considered cheating? No it isn’t, the boulder can theoretically be called a loose impediment if enough people are there lmao
@Ling Ling exactly 😉
Otherwise the audience trampling the rough could be considered as improving the lie. In my eyes they are in the same categorie. Advantage by outside agency
Garbage clickbait
Why not talk about Tigers ped use I don’t get it. Vijay using deer antler spray but nothing on the golden goose use of peds?
Tiger is the greatest to ever do it… But he should not have been allowed to move that boulder. You can’t move trees, right? Then why can you move a boulder? 🤔🤨
They forgot the biggest one of all ..Gary player at the British open …putting backwards …and moving dirt in his practice putt
First and foremost that’s bollocks as he is and always has been sponsored by callaway
CLICKBAIT on the thumbnail showing a secret golf ball in a blue plastic ballholder attached to a golfer’s sock. It always amazes me when videos about cheating and not being honest use dubious methods like CLICKBAITING. This cheapens an otherwise good video. We all deserve better.
You clicked though
Golf is not a sport. It is a game. That is all
Everyone needs to hear this!
If you find a basket out in the woods, would you think someone made it? Or did it come from no one or nothing?
If you think it was made by someone you are correct. Baskets do not just make themselves, It would be very mentaly unstable for someone to belive that.
But if you look at the trees, dogs, birds and rocks all around you, do you think it was made by someone?of course it is. That is the way with all things, when you see a house or a book or a picture, you do not doubt someone made it. When you see there is a creation there must be a creator. If it is that simple why would not everyone belive it?
Mabye it is because people do not want to belive in the creator, our God. The reason for this is because he requires moral. We can know this because of our conscience and through the revelation in his word which is The Holy Bible. We deny god because we love what is wrong.
God, who is the judge of the universe has a list of commandments, that are called the moral law, which is the 10 commandments.
If we go through them one by one
We can see what we are guily of.
Have you ever lied? That makes you a?
Have you ever stolen?
Have you ever looked at a person with lust?
Jesus said that this makes you an adulterer at heart.
Have you ever had sex outside of marrage?
Have you ever hated somone?
In god eyes that makes you a murderer because his standard is som much higher than ours.
If you said yes to any of these you are guilty and deserve punishment.
The bible tells us that this is the reason we die. The wages of sin is death. God is paying us in death because of our sins, which is dis obedience to the moral law. So death will one day drag us to the judge of the universe, a holy god. And what shall we do when scripture says all liers the their part in the lake of fire?
This is where the good news of the gospel come in. So the bible has two parts the old testament where god said he would defeat death, and the new testament where he showed us how he did it.
The way he did it was by sacrificing his only son, Jesus on the cross 2000 years ago. He lived without sin and tok the punishment that was on us all. That way God can legaly let us go free from the judgement because somone else has already paid what we owed. We can be judged not guilty because the law has already been satisfied through Jesus.
Just like if you were in a court of law and had a stack of speeding fines and a stranger paid those fines, the judge can legally let you go without you having to pay anything.
So what you have to do to be saved is repent from sin and belive and trust in Jesus alone. For so god loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so everyone who belives in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. We do not automatically become saved even though Jesus has died on the cross.
We have a choice to accept the sacrifice of Jesus through faith in him or not belive in him and get judgement by God.
Jesus said I am the truth the life and the way, no one comes to the father exept through me.
Jesus is the only way cause he is the only one who can forgive our sins.
All other religions have what is called works righteousness, where you can earn everlasting life. But the bible tells us that we can not do anything to earn salvation. They also miss the forgivness of sins.
Therefor we can know that the god of the bible is the true god.
It says in scripture: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.
If you are reading this I plead with you today to accept Jesus as your lord and saviour. Do it now while you can, you may not have tomorrow.
To you reading this, please think through what you have read.
And God bless you!
What about Tiger Woods blatant cheating at the 2013 BMW when he didn’t think the camera’s were watching???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueXaH1wfawA
Amazing how icon status reduces memories!!!
A “routine 7 foot” putt downhill that if you don’t hit it dead center will roll 10 feet past..
And that’s more like 13 feet!
13 feet at least. This entire video is clickbait
PED’s…. In golf! Crazy.
The guy who made this video is a clown 90% of this isn’t cheating
I’m a pro golfer and what Phil and Tiger did isn’t close to cheating on top of everything Phil didn’t even have a chance to win he was mocking the usga. You may as well say Bryson cheats bc he hits it farthest
Exactly, Phil broke the rules, wich are 2 different things, a lot of people mix them together. Cheating is BREAKING the rules with the goal and intention of getting an advantage, he did not do the last, he only broke the rules.
Phil had the officials in his pocket. He got away with more free drops than anyone I ever seen. Lol. Also, Patrick Reed, in the sand. He might as well took a kids sand shovel and cleared it out. That’s like when he picked up the ball before the official got to his ball. When he said he was in an existing divot. That ball clearly bounced on that one. He just didn’t want to hit it out of the thick grass. Reed is bad.
if your not cheating, your not trying hard enough, LOL
That’s why Michelson joined the LIF tour, he will be able to make his own rules and do whatever he wants !
Click bait i thought it was 8 minutes explaining why there is a hidden ball on mickelsons ankle. Total bullshit your the cheater.
What about Gary Player??????
Your video stinks. Palmer’s ball was embedded and he was entitled to get a free drop. Venturi was a crybaby. Palmer broke no rules and the first official was an idiot. Good thing that that official got over ruled. Every golfer is allowed to use the rules to their advantage. It has always been that way and still is. However, Reed is a definite cheater.
Tiger and Arnie both used the rules to their advantage, not cheating
Ken Venturi asked Palmer if he would you have played a 2nd ball if the first one went in the hole ? Palmer should have announced he was going to play 2 balls before hitting the first ball instead played a 2nd ball because he didn’t like the result from the first ball. Cheating, plan and simple.
This video is trash, most incidents aren’t cheating here. Boof content at best.
I play in a senior men’s club, most of these guys cheat and are the biggest sandbaggers I’ve met. I shoot a 74 with a 6 hdcp and come in 3rd place on low net. wow I’m playing against pro’s.
look the rules up first lad utter shite
It is ok to say Tiger is a cheater, just ask his x wife?
The ball was plugged and you are playing wet weather rules, yes he should have gotten a free drop?
Arnold Palmer should be REMOVED from the Golf HOF and The Masters trophy given to Venturi. Cheating bastard!
Not technically “cheating” but definitely “cheating” ? Ok then… Lol 😅
Who the FUCK is “Quepka” 🤦🏻♂️
Cheating seems strong for some of these. Human error, may be more appropriate and we are all human.
Both of Woods mgrs. were nailed for selling Steroids. Woods hasn’t won a big match since they started drug testing. Nicholson either.
Maybe you need to look up cheating, you obviously have no idea.
Bro, learn how to pronounce the players names if you’re going to make golf videos. Brooks Koepka … KUEPKA?!
This video is really crap
Click bait garbage
I wonder if a defamation lawyer will get hold of this?
“Brooks Kwepka” 😅
This video was incredibly annoying. Why couldn’t the narrator say Brooks Koepka’s last name correctly, why did he quote golf scores as “minus four” (as opposed to “four under” )…and for God’s sake why did he keep saying “stay tuned” for things that immediately followed the statement! Garrgh! I hate that I watched the whole thing.! This video is why there is a dislike button.
This is a golf YouTube channel and this guy says these things in a matter of 8 minutes…
1. “Routine 7 footer”
2. “Books Kwepka”
3. “110 tour wins”
4. Legally moving a boulder is cheating
5. “Ah men corner”
6. “Negative 2” instead of “2 under” or “minus 2”
LOL, thanks for keeping score. I noticed most of those.
ive seen a lot cheating in sports. and if this is what golf goes through, thats just a little sad bc this whole vid was barely even scratching the surface of cheating. more like tedious rules that really only serve to hinder the player rather than uphold the status of pro golf. idk. childish it seems to me.
I hate Phil but that wasn’t routine lmao
Absolute f*** nonsense .. stop misleading and mis informing.. especially about people like Phil
GOLF DISTRICT H*MO
The PGA minions are at full force in trying to discredit everyone going to LIV your. Very pathetic.
Hitting a ball that’s moving isn’t cheating. It’s perfectly within the rules of the game which is why there’s a penalty for it. If you have a situation like Phil, where it will take you another 3 or 4 shots to get back to where you are, you can do exactly what Phil did and stop the ball from rolling off the green by hitting it while it’s still moving. Your other choice is to declare it “unplayable” and under penalty of one stroke and replay the shot. Either way it’s not cheating! It’s playing smart.
Agreed. Is it kind of dirty to use the penalty to save yourself strokes? Sure, maybe a little bit. Lol. I love golf, but I think it got blown way out of proportion because of who did it and not what was done.
@Brandon Reffitt I agree. Phil knows the rules well and he used them to his advantage in that situation. It’s not a penalty of disqualification, it’s just a penalty. That’s not cheating. Phil took his medicine and didn’t complain, but everyone else did.
I don’t care about PEDS…which I believe Tiger has used.…because EVERYBODY uses pills.
Forgot Auric Goldfinger lol
“Stay tuned” and then proceeds to immediately go into that story
You have a pretty convoluted idea of what constitutes cheating. Most of these were penalized which is part of the game. Cheating is when you know your breaking the rules regardless you still try and get away with them. Using the rules for your benefit is smart golf. The unplayable lie is a perfect example. You can at your discretion decide if you can make a shot, if not take the drop. That’s not cheating but it’s not playing the ball it lies either. It helps to know the rules.
So no one’s has ever used the reason half the people click on your video, thumbs down. Don’t false advertise.
Damn, olé Phil is really in the crosshairs isnt he, since the whole
LIV thing.
“routine 7 footer”-you’re a clown
Kwepka
none of these are cheating except Reed
LIV golf. What less could you possibly expect?
Surely you’ve noticed that the no-longer, so-called ‘viable’ winners are defecting to the quick-money-making-tour?
Like Koepka 😀
LOL! The Phil putt was a “routine 7 footer.” That was at least 15 feet and downhill…not routine by any stretch…
Reed is a notorious cheater. He’s been called out for fluffing lies in the rough multiple times.
I guess you don’t know the definition of cheating.
“Phil missed a relatively routine 7 footer”
Dude that’s a super quick, downhill, hard breaking 13 foot putt lmao
Fr lol what a clown
Utter CLICKBAIT thumbnail
The worst kind of channel. Using lies to get hits. Shame on you
What Mickelson did is not cheating, he took the penalty
Stop phil doesn’t cheat
Thats not cheating by phil
Definitely blocking this channel
Who makes a golf video and can’t use proper terminology or how can they not know how to say Koepka?
“Ahh, “They all Cheated and were caught”! “Koodos”!!❤🏌️♂️
Ken Venturi
This channel should be banned for click baiting!!!
This video is a perfect example of why the dislike count needs to come back
Ahh, yes. Reed, the sand castle builder. Lol. He literally dug the sand out from it. I can’t stand Reed anyway. Lol
Anyone remember when Patrick Reed picked up his ball before the official got there, to give the ruling. He said he was in a divot. I know the grass where the ball landed was thick as crap. But, when he bent down to check his ball. He pushed it down in the ground I think. Then he tried saying it was in that ball mark. He’s such a douche. He should not have picked up the ball, until the official got there. Reed is a cheater. Lol.
Kwepka!!!
tiger also cheated on his wife
Except that the solar panels will contribute to global warming, because of the way they reflect the suns rays and the heat that’s generated under the panels.
The guy who rang up to snitch is definitely a nonce